Hi, need help, this time on ranks for Space Patrol!

[lordziba]

Hi, again, I need help, or rather input on ranks for an organization of Space/Star Ranger Patrol. This force supopousedly a hybrid of space defence force and police. I would prefer though, any ideas regarding Air Force like structure than Navy?

Thank you, Ziba!

[jrichardn]

Hi, LZ!

You could start with the Royal Air Force's rank structure, which started as a hybrid of the British army & navy's respective air arms. Besides, it would allow you cool-sounding ranks like Space Chief Marshal. :-)

In the RAF (and its Commonwealth counterparts), officers between OF-2 and OF-5 are named after the formations they commanded: a Flight Lieutenant (OF-2) commanded a flight; Squadron Leader (OF-3) a squadron; Wing Commander (OF-4) a wing, and Group Captain (OF-5) a Group. You can see the use of naval rank styles in the nomenclature. And you have to admit that wing is a cool name for a formation.

(The downside to this scheme is that as the force changes the ranks are frozen in time. Whilst no one today remembers, or cares, about the correspondence between army ranks and the formations they commanded in the middle ages, it seems odd for a squadron to be commanded by a Wing Commander.)

Cheers, Richard in Toronto

[lordziba]

In the RAF (and its Commonwealth counterparts), officers between OF-2 and OF-5 are named after the formations they commanded: a Flight Lieutenant (OF-2) commanded a flight; Squadron Leader (OF-3) a squadron; Wing Commander (OF-4) a wing, and Group Captain (OF-5) a Group. You can see the use of naval rank styles in the nomenclature. And you have to admit that wing is a cool name for a formation.

That's all good, but imagine a warship in space and Flight Lieutenant there?
No, not really fitting. I need also something different, like maybe Star Master? I figuer out ranks above O-5:
Vice Marshall, Picket Marshall, Fleet Marshall, and Armada Marshall.

Instead of Lieutenant I am replacing with Cornet. However, the upper positions not clear from Lieutenant - Commander to Captain, that is where I need help.

Thank you, Ziba.

[Jacob Lessing]

It seems that this space defense force has both naval elements and the elements of an air force. Therefore, as you pointed out, RAF grade titles would be inappropriate, because they are only useful in a pure air force. Even though it is, as you said, a police force, you'll want to avoid things like 'constable' or 'commissioner' as this space patrol appears to have a 'military police' angle. And since it serves all these different functions, the space patrol could get away with seven line officer grades, in order to account for its different branches. Try...

O-1: Enisgn (sort of an 'acting lieutenant', only found in the naval branch)
O-2: 2nd Cornet (a real lieutenant, or a fighter pilot)
O-3: 1st Cornet (a lieutenant with more authority, or a flight leader)
O-4: Subcommander (a department head on a warship, or a squadron leader)
O-5: Commander (commands a corvette-sized warship, or is a wing leader)
O-6: Captain (commands a frigate-sized warship, a corvette taskforce, or is a group leader)
0-7: Star Captain (commands a cruiser or a frigate taskforce, no pilot equivalent)
...follow up with marshalls or admirals or whatever.

[lordziba]

You right on the money. Cool, Thanks.

I was thinking about Star Master, Space Master, Cptain (?).

so: O-1. Subaltern. O-2. Cornet. O-3. Leading Cornet. O-4. Master Cornet
O-5. Star Master. O-6. Space Master. O-7. Master-Captain O-9. Vice-Marshall.
O-10. Picket Marshal.l O-11. Fleet Marshall. O-12. Grand Marshall.

[lordziba]

Interesting, If I want to create a unit resamble space marine corps and planetary/surface operations, how should I name the unit?
Another words, what would be a "ground" devision of the Long Range Space Patrol?

Thank you again, Ziba.

[Miklós Lovász]

Planetary ops: perhaps Security Intervention Corps? or Peacemaker Corps? I would think along the lines of some non-aggresive name, something that would send a message of protection of the law or something like this ... Protective Intervention Corps perhaps?
Btw, you wnat separate rank designations for this or the Patrol's would also apply?

[Miklós Lovász]

as to the "ground division" I think it would not require a different name, just a sub-unit designation, something like, say "LRSP - Planetary Office, xxx" where xxx would be substituted with the appropriate planet's name.

[lordziba]

Hm, what about Auxiliary Superdimensional Peacekeeper Corps? I like the idea sort of para-police ring to it, and even though, it is a division of LSRP, they alike to the USMC have own uniforms (which resembles old Colonial Schutzetruppen). Theirs duty not only marine but security of remote outposts, also remote planetary operations, an immediate strike force as well.

Thank you, again, Ziba.

[Erskine Calderon]

Surface Operations Group

[lordziba]

what would be another equivalent of the rank of Lieutenant/Cornet?

[Erskine Calderon]

Officer

[lordziba]

Thanx Erskine, but officer, nah, since I am going to use underofficer as subaltern. I guess, I will stick with Lieutenant. I was thinking for officers:
1. Underofficer 2. Lieutenant 3. Leading Lieutenant 4. Lieutenant-Commandant 5. Commandant 6. Chief Commandant (or should I instead use Lt. Colonel?) 7. Colonel 8. Lieutenant Brigadier 9. Brigadier 10. Brigadier Major 11. Brigadier General of ADOC

How about that?

Replies and input will be welcomed, Ziba.

[Miklós Lovász]

Why Auxiliary? Auxiliary to what? I mean, the auxiliaries were "not-quite-soldiers" so to speak, so Auxiliary would make them less-then LRSp. As to Superdimensional ... what would that mean? Above which dimension? Why?
I guess, what you should be looking at is some sort of Gendarmerie ... you know, military and police in the same time ... how about that?
As to the rank structure, I'd think something like this:
Cornet
Subaltern
Captain
Staff Captain
Senior Captain
Chief Captain
Group Captain
Brigade Master
Division Master
Field Master
Master-General

[lordziba]

Why Auxiliary? Auxiliary to what? To the Long Range Space Patrol, and yes they are little bit lesser than LSRP.
As to Superdimensional ... what would that mean? Above which dimension? Why? Not an anime fun, huh? But seriously, Superdimensional means above a dimension, another words, a fancy way to describe SEAL’s. Since their (ADOC) forces operate in different environments which includes space, so SEAL’s is not a good name. So, I thought of Auxiliary Dimensional Operations Corps.
I guess, what you should be looking at is some sort of Gendarmerie, hm, true.
As to the rank structure, cool, but still I try to do several things. 1st. Avoid at any cost to look alike LSRP.(at lest for a most part), 2nd. Avoid if possible, rank of Captain, since here Captain just 0-4(3), however, due to the sort of Marine nature, in my mind its always 0-7(6). 3rd. Because of the Air Force nature of LRSP, in this units I wanna have rank Colonel or 0.-7.
So, how about: 1. Underofficer. 2. Subaltern. 3. Leading Subaltern. 4. Subaltern -Commandant. 5. Commandant 6. Commander 7. Colonel. 8. Brigadier Commandant9. Division Commandant. 10. Corps Commander 11. Commander Commandant of the ADOC.
Another thing, cannot utilize ranks of Master as Generals level, since they already applied in LSRP as O.-4 to O.-7 levels.

Thanks for info, Ziba .

[Miklós Lovász]

How about this:
Cornet
Subaltern
Lieutenant
Lieutenant Colonel
Subcolonel
Colonel
Commandant
Lieutenant General
General
Senior General
Chief General

[Miklós Lovász]

And one more thing:

HAPPY BIRTHDAY :D

[lordziba]

And one more thing:

HAPPY BIRTHDAY:

Thanks, Ziba.[schild=4 fontcolor=000000 shadowcolor=C0C0C0 shieldshadow=1] cool[/schild]

[Miklós Lovász]

Oh yeah, on a second thought, how about this:
Cornet
Subaltern
Lieutenant Centurion
Centurion
Vice Prefect
Prefect
Vice Legate
Legate
Legate General

[lordziba]

interesting, but little bit old Roman. I was thinking some day to create a proto-Roman state called Star Eagle Protectorate.

Ziba

[Kedyw]

How about this, hmm?

Trainee (Broken into sectors I, II, III, IV)
Patrolman
Leading Patrolman
Corporal
Master Corporal
Sergeant II
Sergeant I
Staff Sergeant

Sub Lieutenant
Lieutent
Captain
Commander
Commissar

Note: Patrolman rate could be changed to others, Pilot, Mechanic, Soldier Et cetera.

[lordziba]

Hi everybody, I just seen ranks from new Starship Troopers rule book. Unfortunatly its like $44, so, can anybody scan them and post?

Thank you, Ziba.

P.S. Interesting intepretattion of Eagle and Wings! And what's the status of rank mate in military navy, officer or NCO?

[Luke]

Herre is an other suggestion:

Follower

Constable
Head Constable

Assistant Sub Inspector
Sub-Inspector
Inspector

Assistant Commandant
Deputy Commandant
Second in command
Commandant
Additional Deputy Inspector General
Deputy Inspector General
Inspector General
Additional Director General
Director General

[lordziba]

Hi, thank you again for the help. I have yet another question. I developed two sets of insignias, one on a chest , the other a cuff ranks. However, if crewman utilized a special ger: armored or space suits, should I developed the 3rd type, sort of simple version of those two, or that not nessessary?

Thanx, Ziba.

[Kedyw]

Oh, well, I would not consider it a bad idea at all, but remember, if you make the three extremely diverse, there will be no real flow to the rank insignia, like the simplicity of the American, Polish, or Canadian insignia. Very nice, simplistic, and easy to follow. Bars and diamonds usually work well when I am doodling with things like this.

[lordziba]

Another thing, I am trying to create state security forces and need a set of ranks, but this time farther from navy as posible.
Thanks, Ziba.

[Miklós Lovász]

what kind of force do you have in mind? uniformed or plainclothes? i.e. police-like or gendarmerie-like?

[lordziba]

what kind of force do you have in mind? uniformed or plainclothes? i.e. police-like or gendarmerie-like?

Defenatly uniformed, however, like CIA have plain (civillian cloth) too. I was thinking something along of Free Worlds Intersystem Security Service. Sort of hybrid of Interpol with KGB :lol: . There also going to be two sets of insignias, one -- for a full dress, similar to Free Worlds Rangers (that's name for planetary/ground forces) and ADOC, the other along one signle pin mark for undercover agents as a proove of rank on ID/ or field usage.

Ziba

[lordziba]

Hi again, ok, I finished both LRSP and ADOC and working on FWFR Ranger Armed Forces. The ranks and structure are pretty normal, however, due to a "frontier nature," I desided to forgo normal names for ranks of Gernerals, like Major-General or Lieutenant - General, instead them, new ones would be based on command expirience for Generals. The problem I encouter -- how properly name tha rank of junior general. I was thinking along these lines: Vice-General (Commander of Brigade or Light Devision), General (Devision to Corps Commander), Seniour General (Special Corps, Army or Front Commander), and Commanding General (Secretary of Defence in a peace time, of XO of CinC in a war time) -- only one person.

So,my question though, which rank sounds better -- Vice-General, or Junior General, or any other ides?

Thank you, Ziba.

[Erskine Calderon]

Adjutant General

[lordziba]

Adjutant General

Now, can this rank perform the other duties, let say be in command of a brigade, but not nesesserly be an adjutant?

Ziba

[Jacob Lessing]

Oh, certainly. Remember: a grade title does not always have to reflect the position of the officer-in-question. Even today in the US, "Brigadiers" and "Brigadier Generals" don't usually command Brigades, since the Regiment has been done away with. Besides, it seems appropriate for the General of a Brigade to have something in common with his senior NCO, who is the real adjutant.

[Jacob Lessing]

As for the Free Worlds International Security Service, or whatever you decide to call it, you can now fully embrace the police aspect, try:

Constable (in three pay divisions: "constable", "leading constable", and"constable corporal")

Junior Sergeant
Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
Master Sergeant

Deputy Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Captain
Staff Captain
Deputy Assistant Commissioner
Assistant Commissioner

Vice-Commissioner
Commissioner
Deputy Cheif-Commissioner
Cheif Commissioner

Procurator (or some such title)
(this progression is based on 'Police State no.1' from my very own Rank Insignia Notebook)

[lordziba]

Thanks, that would help, interesting, are there any more "police" and obscure ranks, as oppouse military, that would be possible to substitute from Sergeant to Staff Captain?

Ziba

[Jacob Lessing]

Well, as far as I know, "sergeant", "lieutenant", and "captain" are all found in police forces. But you could change the prefixes, as in "shift sergeant" or "patrol sergeant" or something like that.

[lordziba]

I was thinking along like Commander, Department Chief, Commandant, Detective, or Inspector.

Ziba

[Jacob Lessing]

Change "deputy lieutenant" to "deputy inspector". Change "lieutenant" to "inspector". Change "captain" to "cheif inspector". Change "staff captain" to "commander". Change "Procurator" to "Cheif".

"Commandant", as a military title, doesn't seem to work well with a police force.
Detectives, since they are specialists, could be a kind of warrant officer.

[pettyofficer3]

I think Lieutenant can be replaced by executive trainee or Lieutenant Junior Level.