Uniform Insignia Forum

Hi Everybody!
Chuck Anderson here!!

I found an interesting article that I'd like to share with you, titled "Why Blue?-A Historical Look at Law Enforcement's Most Popular Colour", by Peter A. Dervis.
You can see this information at:..............................................................

http://www.madetomeasuremag.com/features/whyblue.html

Alastair Dinsmor is the real expert on police matters, and he'd be an excellent source of further information on this subject.

More later! See ya'!!

Chuck Anderson
USAFWO1_1975@military.com

Hi Chuck,
Thanks for the URL concerning the question ‘Why Blue’.
Whilst the article was, in the main, concerned with the use of the blue uniform colour in the USA, the author did touch on its use by the British Police.
First of all, the author appears to have been taken in by the myth that the Metropolitan Police of London was “the world's first organized municipal law enforcement agency.” He’s obviously been reading the usual reference books, which are increasingly being discredited as having been under-researched.
The majority of these books, mostly written in the South of England, fail to recognise that there were eleven municipal police forces (founded under Acts of Parliament) up and running in Scotland before Robert Peel founded the Metropolitan Police in 1829. The first UK force being the City of Glasgow Police founded under the Glasgow Police Act of 30 June 1800.
It would be difficult to pinpoint which police force was the first in the World, as this would require a great deal of research in primary sources in the countries concerned.
(see http://gphs1800.tripod.com/Beginnings.html)
The Glasgow Police officers of 1800 are on record as wearing “blue cut-away coats, vests and knee breeches of the same colour. The seams were decorated with red stripes. The Sergeants wore worsted shoulder knots of red and blue thread”. They also wore glazed top hats until the helmet was introduced in 1868.
I would certainly agree that the style and colour of the uniform was purposely designed to differ from the military uniforms of the day. They were more of a civilian dress with city-crested buttons. Decorated batons were also carried openly, which carried a coat-of-arms etc., to convey the authority under which they operated.
It is interesting to note that in UK in recent years, the dark blue uniforms have been replaced in a number of police forces, by black t-shirts, body armour and cargo pants. There is no particular reason for this, although I suspect that black cloth is easier and probably cheaper to obtain than the particular dark blue colour previously worn.
Hope this clarify a couple of points.
Regards
Alastair Dinsmor

Just to add to this, the British Transport Police have worn black jerseys with a black and white diced band across the chest for some time.

Hi James,
Yes, I saw that the BTP have adopted the black with diced band pullovers, which I am informed is the European standard for Police.
This is particularly pleasing to us ex-Glasgow Police, as the diced cap band was first used in Glasgow in 1932.
See www.policemuseum.org.uk/SILLTARTAN.html
Regards - Alastair

Alastair Dinsmor wrote:Hi Chuck,
<SNIP>First of all, the author appears to have been taken in by the myth that the Metropolitan Police of London was “the world's first organized municipal law enforcement agency.” He’s obviously been reading the usual reference books, which are increasingly being discredited as having been under-researched.
The majority of these books, mostly written in the South of England, fail to recognise that there were eleven municipal police forces (founded under Acts of Parliament) up and running in Scotland before Robert Peel founded the Metropolitan Police in 1829. The first UK force being the City of Glasgow Police founded under the Glasgow Police Act of 30 June 1800.
It would be difficult to pinpoint which police force was the first in the World, as this would require a great deal of research in primary sources in the countries concerned. (see http://gphs1800.tripod.com/Beginnings.html)Alastair Dinsmor

Alastair / Chuck

Thanks most interesting. I hope we see more of this kind of information. Also it is interesting that with so much information out there a single bit of "wrong" or "urban legend" kind of information gets repeated and eventually becomes "accepted". The internet is both the worst offender and the best resource for corrections.

The obscurity of so many military and I am sure constabulary traditions are so open to interpretation.
Thanks

Hi Chuck,
You are right about the myths and legends that seem to be repeated, but the research I have carried out regarding the first UK police force was, unlike the many people who have called themselves police historians in the past, based on actual documents in archives here in Glasgow.
You see, when Robert Peel was trying to get the Metropolitan Police acdepted by Parliament, he used the emerging popular newspapers of the time to publicise himself and the proposed Met. Police force. He was home Secretary and wanted to be Prime Minister and used the papers to promote himself as an innovator.
Following this, all the people writing the history books used the newspapers as their primary source of information and have consistently 'fallen into the trap'. They had an easy line of events on their doorstep and did not venture to other cities and towns to find out what was happening there......especially to travel to Scotland.
If you are interested further I can e-mail you a paper I had published on the subject by the Police History Society a couple of years ago.
Regards
Alastair

Well, in Russia, Militia uniforms are grey...

Hello Guest,
Yes, of course the old Militia uniforms were grey.
If you go to many countries some are brown, white, khaki, green.........there are many colours. (see the unifrms on my website: http://adintpolcol.tripod.com)
But the question was asking about 'blue', it being the most common colour for police uniforms throughout the World.
Regards
Alastair

Robb Mavins wrote: Alastair / Chuck

Thanks most interesting. I hope we see more of this kind of information. Also it is interesting that with so much information out there a single bit of "wrong" or "urban legend" kind of information gets repeated and eventually becomes "accepted". The internet is both the worst offender and the best resource for corrections.

The obscurity of so many military and I am sure constabulary traditions are so open to interpretation.
Thanks

Alastair Dinsmor wrote:Hi Chuck,
You are right about the myths and legends that seem to be repeated, but the research I have carried out regarding the first UK police force was, unlike the many people who have called themselves police historians in the past, based on actual documents in archives here in Glasgow.
You see, when Robert Peel was trying to get the Metropolitan Police acdepted by Parliament, he used the emerging popular newspapers of the time to publicise himself and the proposed Met. Police force. He was home Secretary and wanted to be Prime Minister and used the papers to promote himself as an innovator.
Following this, all the people writing the history books used the newspapers as their primary source of information and have consistently 'fallen into the trap'. They had an easy line of events on their doorstep and did not venture to other cities and towns to find out what was happening there......especially to travel to Scotland.
If you are interested further I can e-mail you a paper I had published on the subject by the Police History Society a couple of years ago.
Regards
Alastair

Hi Alastair: If you were so inclined, I would be interested in reading your paper. I am hoping to be in Glasgow in March on business (with a couple of days in Ecclefechan, my grandmothers home, for a little visit) so I will be sure to let you know, I would love to visit the Glasgow Police Museum.

I've been struggling to set up a couple of historical Commonwealth Navy displays in a couple of Canadian cities. Not an easy process.
robbie_mavins@canada.com as I am not sure the private message is working.

Something about the US:

Police uniforms always seem to be blue
Sheriff's seem to have either tan, blue, or gray, all green in Florida and tan shirts with green pants in California
State troopers seem to be blue, tan, gray or light blue, ex NYSP wears all gray, Vermont trooper wear green

Most Police outside of the US seem to wear blue