Uniform Insignia Forum

I looked that question some time ago when someone asked how the insignia for generals in the ICRU was to look like if they desided to create the rank of general.

I did more than that i made this list http://www.kaldi.is/icelandic-army/iceland-army-insignia.htm
Hope you like it...
Kaldi

what would be a literal translation of the ranks ?

I dont know if you read the ranknames but they are listed under each rank both in icelandic and english.
Acctually when talking about literal meaning then it is very hard to translate the higher NCO´s as we only use the name Liđţjálfi (sergeant) and Yfir liđţjálfi (sergant major) in Icelandic language.
Rest of the names are taken directly from the list of US ranknames and tranlated to icelandic.
And then again this is hypothetical as i dont thinl Iceland is going to have a standing army in the near future.
I also had there pictures from Corporal and sergeant that are in fact used today by the Iceland Crisis and Response Unit (ICRU) + the wo1, cwo2, and cwo3 are also used in the ICRU but for 2nd. LT, 1st. LT, and Captain.

Greetings
Kaldi

Interesting - but have you considered how you might construct a rank structure for a much smaller (hypothetical) service, such as Iceland might concievably raise, rather than using the full-spread of US-equivalent ranks?

Would you keep the same insignia or modify them somewhat?

I'm also intersted in the thoughts people have on systems which use the same insignia in different colors (e.g. gold vice silver) for different grades. Personally, particularly in a relatively small rank structure, I'd suggest having a unique pattern of insignia for each grade, regardless of color. That said, it wouldn't necessarily involve significant changes the main markings in your drawings - keep the same number of stars but maybe just reserve the full braided edging on the shoulder-slides for the general officer ranks and then using a single strip of silver soutache to edge the slides for the company grades with a double strip for the field grades...?

That came to my mind as i was uploading those on my page.
For me i can drop the wo´s and let the junior officers have those and keep the aspect of the current ICRU insignia up to colonel.
Then use the Golden ones for the generals or the silver braid gold diamonds version.
When i was making those i thought of many cinds of insignia seen in various branches around the world.
But if the golden braid is taken in then i look those on Icelands police commissioners.
I can take that in for the part two make of the insignia as this is only a test for me about how they could look like.
Then the foreign ministry uses the diamond versions for the ICRU.
Probably the foreign ministry will drop all peace forces missions ase thei are to expensive and the left partyes are making an alliance to have an government here in Iceland and thei dont want forces that uses military titles...
A bit off topic maybe???
It means only one thing......
More expensive collective material for my collection
more later
Kaldi

Here it is
I did another version of the ranks
Minus WO, and CWO ranks, and some other ranks aswell
http://www.kaldi.is/icelandic-army/iceland-army-insignia-2.htm
it might be better and probably it will end up with the line of the current insignia plus the general ranks

More later
Kaldi

you could construct a (hypothetical) rank structure based upon the police force.
By giving your army the same basic rank structure as the police with military titles.
National Commissioner would be maybe Army Commandant and work down.
Maybe the size would be little more than a regiment, so you could get away with four nco ranks and six officer ranks that could be equivalent to police ranks.

Army Commandant - National Commissioner
Lt Col - Deputy National Commissioner
Maj - Deputy Commissioner
Capt - Chief Super
Lt - Super
2lt - Chief Inspector
WO - Inspector
Sgt - Sgt
Cpl - ?
Pte - Constable

It sort of works, anything more than a regiment maybe not!

Hi Kaldi,

Yeah, that's sort of what I was thinking of - if I get time, I'll try to put together a version to show you what I meant.

Bill is also getting close to what I meant in terms of down-sizing the total complement to what could realistically be expected. Equally, having insignia close to the Police pattern is not all that surprising - it's a pretty common finding world-wide, although it's unusual for the military insignia to be derived from the police insignia, rather than the other way around!

Also, given the size of the likely force, having a clear parity with the Police ranks is probably sensible - as the two agencies would likely have to work together pretty closely.

Using "Commandant" and, say, "Vice-Commandant" instead of Commissioner and Deputy Commisioner is also a neat way of getting around the excess of using a full General's rank for a force the probably wouldn't exceed brigade strength - but without the possible stigma of having one's (hypothetical) national defence force led by a (mere) Colonel.

Well i was thinking maybe in simular way like the Icelandic Coast guard then they have 7 NCO ranks and 8 officer ranks. There is around 160 persons working for the ICG
The ICRU is having 5 NCO ranks uses 3 and 6 officer ranks. Around 120 persons working in the ICRU, and 18 on duty max in Ahfganistan rest of the staff is just doing normal jobs in Iceland
The Police is using 2 or 3 NCO ranks depending on how people look at the structure and 6 or 7 officer ranks, that includes the commissioners. Dont have the figures of how many police officers are working now in Iceland.
The Icelandic rescue teams are having at least 3000 persons on a stand by list 24/7 365 days per year.
The Icelandic rescue teams are the only ones that dont have some sort of rank insignia and is basically built up by voluntary work and donations.
So as you can se there is a possibility of raising an army of about 2500 - 3500 persons.

kaldi

Kaldi
OK, so you’re looking for a force of around 3000 plus personnel from a population of around 300,000. Considering you would also need coastal and air defence along with police, fire and medical.
You’re hypothetical government is now a little short of man/woman power. A small Island, high cost of running navy and air force so use coast guard.
So the basics, for now let’s keep simple.
10000 for various health service such as doctor’s nurses and ambulance.
1000 for the fire service.
Out of that say 100,000 would be of work or military age [about a third].
1000 for the police force.
3000 for the coast guard to cover the basics of coastal protection.
On your small Island all the forces would have to be able to be co-ordinated so a cross platform ranking system would seem more favourable.
The police in most nations tend to have less ranks than the military, but this I believe could work to your advantage for such a small organisation.
After civilian employment there would be limited forces to boost all the services on mobilization so a small permanent force of two or three infantry battalions,
An extra battalion could contain artillery, transport, signals, and engineers.
Small flexible force unburdened by unnecessary additional structure, able to expand on mobilization of extra personnel is what I assume is what you would be after.
How about the structure below. General may be a little grand I think. Army commandant I believe sounds good, and could be only used on expansion, like some Field Marshal’s and Army general’s.
ARMY......................................POLICE....................................COAST
Army Commandant .....................--------................................Admiral
Commandant ..........................Commissioner..........................Captain
Lt Colonel................................Vice commissioner..................Commander
Major........................................Vice Chief of Police................Lt Commander
Captain.....................................Superintendant.......................Lieutenant
Lt..............................................Chief Inspector [senior]..........Sub Lieutenant
2nd Lt.......................................Chief Inspector........................Ensign
WO...........................................Inspector.................................WO
SSgt..........................................Deputy Inspector....................CPO
Sgt............................................Sgt...........................................PO
Cpl.............................................Cpl..........................................Leading Seaman
L/Cpl...........................................---..........................................Able Seaman
Soldier.......................................Constable...............................Seaman

How does this you?

I think it might work.
But i made this to meet the 13 rank limit
http://www.kaldi.is/icelandic-army/iceland-army-insignia-3.htm

And then i made rank chart of the Icelandic branches real and hypothetical here
http://www.kaldi.is/icelandic-army/iceland-ranks.htm

Note that the Police has minus some ranks becouse there are no more ranks than that in use.
The Coast guard is plus some as i just used all their current ranks

If i am to make them look simular then the case is different
More later
Kaldi

Given that we're talking about a small organisation, I think a small rank structure would be appropriate - after all, out of some 3000 personnel you really don't want half of them be officers :)

So, I believe this structure would meet your needs:

Army Police Coast Guard

Cadet Student Cadet
Private Constable Seaman
Corporal Corporal Petty Officer
Sergeant Sergeant Chief Petty Officer
Sublieutenant Inspector Ensign
Lieutenant Chief Inspector Sublieutenant
Captain Superintendant Lieutenant
Major Chief Superintendant Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Colonel Vice Commissioner Commander
Colonel Commissioner Captain
General National Commissioner Admiral

It seems to me that the police ranks are going to stand unchanged, The ranks from the ICRU will stand as they are today.
But the Icelandic coast guard is going to be difficult as those ranks i show from them are the current ones.
There are about 160 persons working in the Coast Guard an most of them are in fact officers.
In hypothetical world i can change the line from them but as the ICG was before (a year ago) still to many officer ranks, 8 ranks for officers and 4 ranks for NCO.
The highest ranking person in an hypothetical army would probably be colonel with corresponding ranks from the others to be National Commissioner of Police and Captain in ICG.

Kaldi

Kaldi
Your first chart with 16 ranks seems to be top heavy for the organization you would have.
The other charts would work but I wouldn't give the senior rank as colonel or use general.
As Medic in Uniform said 'having one's (hypothetical) national defence force led by a (mere) Colonel' which could cause ego problems. So something that says commander without inflating the size of command.
A Brigadier would I believe be the highest realistict rank for such an organization, saying just general maybe inflates it a bit.
Charts are very good, possibly could give the warrant officer just a coat of arms, or are you wanting to stay close to the Islandic system?
The 12 rank chart works best for me but no harm in having 13. Wouldn't worry about matching the police with the military to exact opposite numbers, unless you want to turn your Island into 1994 and militarize them. Just miss out the odd ranks that the police don't need like L/cpl, S/sgt and the like.

Actually i am thinking in the way of having the current systems that are in use today.
But if we change it a bit then i might be able to dig up some subdued insignia that i tryed to make for alternative defence force based on the rank insignia from the Icelandic police.
In fact those are police insignia just camo
And all the ranks are based on 1997 structure from the police.

When you are talking about sizes of forces and line of officers vercus NCO then i think the Icelandic Coast Guard is on top there with around 160 persons and the NCO ranks are 7 against 8 officer ranks
And from what i hear from them is that they changed from 4 NCO ranks to 7 becouse of to many officers.

Kaldi