Uniform Insignia Forum

Hi Everyone!

Chuck Anderson here!!

First I would like to apologise if I put this in an incorrect category, I just wasn't sure where to put it, as it's really not a rank insignia question or statement.

People who have served in the U.S. armed forces, including yours truly, (with the exception of the U.S. Navy and Coast Guard as far as I know), when going through boot camp, had Drill Instructors who wore what it sometime referred to as campaign hats or even what some called smokey bear hats. In the military, these were strictly for Drill Instructors!

Now my question to the folks from other nations is...............................
"Do Drill Instructors in the various branches of your nation's armed forces ever wear something similar?" One sure never makes the error of not knowing who the Drill Instructors were.

Also, would anyone like to be in a Usergroup where we can compare experiences in Boot Camp from our respective nations armed forces? Maybe we could call it the World's Boot Camps Usergroup! I think it would be neat to compare notes and experiences about how things were done in the different namtions. Just an idea!!

Chuck Anderson
USAFWO1_1975@military.com

Well in the Singapore Armed Forces, we go through Basic Military Training in the Basic Military Training Center.

We have Instructors, but unlike US we don't call them Drill Instructors, our Instructors are Specialist (we call Sergeants as Specialist instead of NCO) who will impart stuffs like Drills, Marksmanship...etc to the Recruits.

Instructors in BMTC do not wear anything distinctive, again unlike US, who's Drill Instructors with their Smokey Bear Hat. However they do have the word "Instructor" sewed on both sides of their field cap, still the sewing of "Instructor" word might not be official, I've no idea cause I was never an Instructor in BMTC.

In the Canadian Forces, we had to go through Basic Recruit Training (BRT). The training is supposed to be the same for Army, Navy and Air Force. I'm Naval Reserve, but my there was a mixture of Air Force and regular army guys on my course. Our drill instructors, most of whom were actually of the rank of Master-Corporal, wore nothing to distinguish themselves as BRT instructors, although they did occasionally carry around a pace-cane.

Hi Chuck herrewiggly here, there is no specific headress for drill instuctors in the British Army. (I'm Ex regular army) when a recruit joins up they are grouped into a platoon for training purposes, 36 to a platoon. There is a platoon sergeant ,corporal and lance corporal (pfc) to you and they responsible for the training of the platoon in all aspects except weapons training, this is normally done by staff from the Small Arms Corps. As the platoon progresses the drill is taken over by the Company Sergeant Major (W.O.2) and the final polish done by the Regimental Sergeant Major (W.O.1). In my time all members of the platoon and training staff wore denim dress with beret, no distinquishing head dress. I believe today the difference is instead of denims they wear combat gear, still with the beret. cheers. :D :D

in australia, the RAAF has a brassard on the left arm which is the letters "MSI" (Military Skills Instructor) surrounded by a laurel wreath.

Army has a small badge, similar in size to the US marksman badges, worn on the left breast pocket which is the letters "RI" in a wreath and is made of bronze.

that's about it...

Nothing in Hungarian or Romanian armed services. And there never was any such distinctive hedgear in use, either. However, those officers and NCO's that teach in the Romanian military education establishments (including drill instructors, but only there!) have a wide, bright yellow stripe around the base of their visor caps.

In the South African Defence Force (Airforce for me) the instructors wore a distinctive Instructors Insignia consisting of crossed swords on the (if I remember correctly) right breast.

They did not wear any destinctive headgear but were quite easy to destinguish from a distance as their Nutria uniforms were starched to an almost white color.

EDIT

All I know is the USMC, Army and even some law enforcement DI's wear the "state trooper hat". Do the Navy and Merchant Marine enlistees really have USMC DI's?

Chris

ChrisWI wrote:All I know is the USMC, Army and even some law enforcement DI's wear the "state trooper hat". Do the Navy and Merchant Marine enlistees really have USMC DI's?

yes, they really do. That hat is called a "Campaign Hat" aka "Stetson".

Something of note about US Army Drill Sergeants is the fact that Infantry Drill Sergeants wear an Infantry Blue disc around the insignia in the front-center of their campaign hats. I say Infantry Blue because I don't know the actual name of the color. It's something of an even greater distinction on an already distinctive hat.

Also, the term of address for Drill Sergeants differs from post to post and commander to commander. When I went through Basic, we were taught to address the Drill Sergeants as we would any other sergeant, staff sergeant, or sergeant first class--"Sergeant." However, after a stint of training on a different installation without Drill Sergeants, I had the misfortune of once again coming under their tender care. Unfortunately for me, I addressed the first Drill Sergeant as "Sergeant" and found out very quickly that for that particular company, they would be addressed as "Drill Sergeant." It took me a while to get his muddy bootprint off the seat of my pants.

The US NAVY does NOT use USMC drill instructors. The very notion is stupid. Navy Recruit Division Commanders wear a red cord around their arm to indicate their position, we call them 'red ropes.' Recruit Division Commanders in training have a blue cord around their arm.

Caim_Dubh, I would say its a light blue color. Thats the infantry's traditional branch color in the US Army, except for a brief period in the 1890's when it was white.

From Perscom:

INFANTRY

Branch Colors: Light blue - 65014 cloth; 67120 yarn; PMS 5415.

The Infantry has made two complete cycles between white and light blue. During the Revolutionary War, white facings were prescribed for the Infantry. White was the color used for Infantry until 1851 at which time light or saxony blue was prescribed for the pompon and for the trimming on Infantry horse furniture. In 1857, the color was prescribed as light or sky blue. In 1886, the linings of capes and trouser stripes were prescribed to be white. However, in 1902, the light blue was prescribed again. In 1917, the cape was still lined with light blue but the Infantry trouser stripes were of white as were the chevrons for enlisted men. The infantry color is light blue; however, infantry regimental flags and guidons have been National Flag blue since 1835. White is used as a secondary color on the guidons for letters, numbers, and insignia.

I've seen at least one picture of USCG recruit training drill instructors wearing a campaign hat. I suspect this is a recent adoption.

Army, USMC (and USCG) wear brown campaign hats.
Air Force wears a blue campaign hat.
Air Force instructors at the Defense Language Institute wear a maroon campaign hat (though I've yet to come across someone wearing one).

Dave

:roll: I could see how brown, dark blue, or maybe even black would look good on a campaign hat given the proper uniform. But I simply refuse to believe anyone would consider a campaign hat in any shade of red a wise choice. Dave, or anyone, if you can find a picture of said hat I would appreciate the laugh at the wearer's expense. :lol:

Hi Everybody!
Chuck here!!

During Vietnam, not all of our Drill Instructors were NCO's. In fact, one Drill Instructor we had was an E-2 (Airman), one of many (and I personally saw many), who proved to be exceptional recruits, and who remained at Boot Camp (Lackland AFB; San Antonio, Texas) to go on to the Drill Instructors School and become fully-qualified Drill Instructors, (special headgear and all.) It was a bit surprising seeing a one-striper decked-out as a Drill Instructor. Anyway, we were ordered to address all Drill Instructors as "Sir", which was to be the first and last words out of our mouths.
An ongoing war can sure make odd things happen that wouldn't otherwise occur. See ya'!!

Chuck
USAFWO1_1975@military.com

Caim_Dubh wrote::roll: I could see how brown, dark blue, or maybe even black would look good on a campaign hat given the proper uniform. But I simply refuse to believe anyone would consider a campaign hat in any shade of red a wise choice. Dave, or anyone, if you can find a picture of said hat I would appreciate the laugh at the wearer's expense. :lol:

I have never seen a picture myself, but Air Force uniform regs (AF 36-2903) do provide for a maroon campaign hat for DLI English Language Center instructors (see page 106).

Dave

Hi Everybody!
Chuck here!!

I remember while I was in the USAF, our Para-rescue personnel wore a maroon beret, and it actually looked pretty sharp, and not at all silly.
Our guys were members of the 9th Aerial Port Squadron.

As for our DI's, the only colour I remember for campaign hats was dark green, and they were seen at the USAF's one and only Boot Camp at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas.

Different colour hats did come about in regular use however, in the form of "baseball caps" , which were of different colours (depending upon which unit was wearing it.) Upon these squadron caps were letters of contrasting colours to the cap, these letters being an abbreviation of the squadron wearing it.
For example, when I was stationed at Mountain Home Air Force Base in Idaho, our cap was blue, with white block letters which read SUP for the Supply Squadron. Another squadron wore a black cap with red block letters which read MMS, for Munitions Maintenance Squadron.

There were caps for other squadrons, like OMS for Organisational Maintenance Squadron, or TFS for Tactical Fighter Squadron.

More later!!

Chuck Anderson

Well, maroon berets have been in use for quite a few years by paratroopers the world over. But still, a maroon campaign hat?

As a side note, the USAF uses several different colors of berets. I can't recall all the types of units that use them but I know the Security Police wear dark blue and pararescue, maroon. I believe the tactical weather units wear a storm grey beret, and I think there are also red berets.

Hi all!
Chuck here!!

I know my military service was years ago, (OK, years and years ago), but nobody seems to remember that Air Force Security Police wore a white hat that we used to affectionally call the "moving target". (During 'Nam I had a year as a Security Policeman --Law Enforcement Specialist, AFSC 81250.) Needless to say, when I was later given the chance to crosstrain out of the SP's and into Supply, I "jumped" at the chance -- and I never even went to Jump School!! (Sorry for the pun!!)

It just seems that a lot of people seem to think that everything military is just brown or green (or white), and they'd look a little skeptical when you'd try to show them that there's a lot more colours than what they've been exposed to.

Chuck

The Red Beret that the Air Force uses is for Combat Controllers and its a very bright scarlet. The Air Force also uses a Black Beret for its Tactical Air Control Parties, These guys deploy with Army Airborne units and act as Forward Air Controls, I like to call them Combat Control Light. Because they go to Airborne school but there training is not as extensive as Combat Controllers.

As Far as my experiance goes, I did Air Force Officer Training, The Campagin covers that the MTI's wore was also slightly diffrent from the Army and USMC. The Air Force version was not only Blue but it was made of what looked like straw, or somthing like that I think this might just be an option that you can choose but it was interesting non the less.

One other thing DI are not the only people who wear a campagin cover in the USMC. The Range Saftey Officer has the option of wearing one. Normally this position is occupied by a Warrant Officer so they wear a bright Scarlet and Gold tassel on there cover. I don't have any pictures but if you've ever scene the movie Major Pain then the campagin cover that he wears has the RSO tassel on it.

And the spam flows like wine...

For the love of money - Admins please make this a "register to post" site!

Hi Everyone!

As a Moderator I can eliminate spam postings in most categories, but in this category of General Discussions I don't see any tool available for me to do so here.

I always like giving these spammers the "ol' heave-ho" if you get my meaning, and if given the proper Moderator's tool for this category I can "take out the garbage" whenever and where ever I see it in this, the General Discussions category!

Chuck

Hi
I hope I fixed it (at least for this category) - only registered users can now post replies.
Zdzislaw

Interesting update for this discussion--US Army Training and Doctrine Command will soon be dropping all non-BCT/OSUT Drill Sergeants from its books, i.e. no more drill sergeants for soldiers in AIT for Combat Support and Combat Service Support specialties.

These are the Regs that I've been taught on my Drill Instuctors courses at Frimely Park, amongst other establishments:

1) The instructor is to be turned out either in Number 14 Barrack Dress (shirtsleeve or pullover order, weather dependent), or full Number 2 Service Dress (if neither is available, the Number 8 Comabt '95 may be worn with beret). The instructor may carry either a Sgts Cane or a Pace Stick.

2) The squad, or body to be drilled is to be turned out in either Number 14 Barrack Dress (for those units that still use it [and there are some around]), or full Number 2 Service Dress. If neither uniform is available, then Number 8 (Combat '95s) dress may be worn with Combat '95 Jacket.

3) Peaked caps are not to be worn with Number 8 Service Dress, but may be worn with Number 14 (unit dependent) and Number 2 Service Dress. Berets are to be worn with Number 14 and Number 2 by those units who do not authorise the wearing of Peaked caps with the aforementioned dress.

Essentially, the same would go for the RAF as well, but they classify their uniform dress differently, and I won't go into it all as it will just get very confusing (the RAF also don't have Barrack Dress).