Uniform Insignia Forum

The folowing listings on your site are in vialation of copyright.

Star Trek - Cardassian´s
Star Trek - Federation Ambassador´s
Star Trek - Ferengi´s
Star Trek - Gorn´s
Star Trek - Klingon´s
Star Trek - Romulan´s

The copyright holder allows the use of these images under the condition that a copyright notice is placed on the site. You have failed to do so, after being asked once.

It should also be notied that you are misrepresenting these images as canon Star Trek. They are not. they were created by the auther for his RPG group.

You will be given one FINALE chance to comply with international copyright law. place th folowing on the bottom of the forementioned listings.

Um, no, they are not in violation. Your notice is neither legal nor valid. You should also learn to spell.

Ian Shrallow wrote:Um, no, they are not in violation. Your notice is neither legal nor valid. You should also learn to spell.

You're goood :lol:

I'd like to state that thise pips were created by Steven Marriott. I use them for my RPG, and give credit where credit is due.

I'd also like to complain that in your Star Trek pages, you have some information that is just plain wrong. You show a purple looking sleeve color with an admiral's insignia as "command division" however, for the time fame for the graphic in question Red is command division. Red is also used for JAG corps, astronavigation, and a few other divisions within the Starfleet. Gold is used for the Engineering division, the Operations division, and the Security division. Teal or Blue is used for the Medical and Science divisions.

There is no "ambassador" ranking system, as "ambassador" is a CIVILIAN position.

The alien insignia you show are not canon, as they have never been seen in an actual Star Trek episode or movie.

The Federation insignia you show for "The Next Generation" era should be Gold, not Silver.

If you're going to use these insignias, please try and get them correct, and give credit for designing them, to the person who actually designed them.

If you have any questions, I, as a die-hard Trekkie, will be happy to answer them.

I'd just like to see you giving correct information to anyone who stumbles across your page.

Sincerely,
Stephan

With the exception of the "on this site" part (which should be changed to "on this page" or "in this section"), this is a perfectly reasonable request. And the insignia in questiion are NOT cannon. They belong to Steve Marriott, and NOT Paramount Pictures.

Ok you have me on te "on this site" issue *smile* thats just a generic credit request i have available on my website. Im aware that someone may use other images as well as my own. But its up to them to make a sutable correction to the disclaimer :-)

But yes it would be nice if my work on at this organisation could be credited back to me, seeing as how its very likley my work is been saeed by users who do not know me as the creator of the imigry.

Steve Marriott

Hi Steve,

Thanks for posting, I think your feelings are reasonable and I hope you get your credit if it is important to you. Most of us contribute without taking credit for our work or research, but that's fine.

As for you Trekkies.. thanks for your help, but can't you find something more constructive to be passionate about?? Seriously.

Ian Shrallow wrote:As for you Trekkies.. thanks for your help, but can't you find something more constructive to be passionate about?? Seriously.

Personally, I find your attitude insulting. If you know me, (which, I may add, you do NOT) you'd know that I'm a Navy-Marine Corps ROTC Midshipman (ergo, a collge student), a Boy Scout Leader, a member of the Order of the Arrow, and a NASCAR fan. I'd say I'm passionate about plenty of non-Trek related things. You should however give out CORRECT information. If you do not, you are misinfoming anyone who uses your site for information.

Ian Shrallow wrote:As for you Trekkies.. thanks for your help, but can't you find something more constructive to be passionate about?? Seriously.

Dude, we are geeks. These posts took a grand total of two minutes to make.

lol, they weren't directed at anyone as much as a culture. But since you guys took offense to them, I guess I hit the nail on the head.

And as for you midshipman, I'm an O-3, so calm down.

Ian Shrallow wrote:... I'm an O-3, so calm down ...

I'm a former O-5 (retired in March of 2002). What does any of that have to do with the topic being discussed?

If you took images off of this gentleman's site and it had a copyright notice on it, you are REQUIRED to give appropriate credit. All he has to do is fire off an e-mail complaint to Network Solutions informing them of a POSSIBLE copyright violation and they will disable your URL while they investigate.

Since this is unlikely to be high on their list, it may take a while for them to get to it and your URL will remain disabled during the entire time.

Is it worth the hassle? Even if you end up being right, your web site might end up being down for several weeks or more.

I speak from experience on this matter because it happened to me -- I run a discussion board and a question arose whether contributors to the board were part owners due to their financial contributions. When some contributors wanted to have more say in the running of the board and I refused, they filled a complaint. Even though I eventually was proven right, my URL was disabled for nearly three months while the matter was looked into.

Take it from me, it ain't worth the hassle. Give the man the credit that he is asking for.

sigh..

1. He wanted kudos for being a midshipman even though that is pretty meaningless since he's not going to a military academy.

2. I did not take or use anything.

3. Your grasp of copywrite and intellectual property laws is not that wonderful. It sounds like you just let a bunch kids put fear into you. In most cases people who claim copywrites have never even copywrited the material. In fact, most people don't even know the first thing about the paperwork involved. And this is just for a US copywrite. International coywrites are sticky and not recognised by many countries and again it requires much paperwork. Likewise, there is a question using the Star Trek name and names associated with it. In fact, I think could wite a book on this. Anyway, the claims made here are unenforcable and quasi-legal at best. Also, since no loss of money is invovled for Paramount or whoever owns the right to the series and movies, there is little claim. As for as people using the name and the series names for their hobbies, they are probably in more danger than anyone posting information and I do not beleive that a copywrite would be granted without the approval of the owners of the rights -- which I doubt ever took place.

Ian Shrallow wrote:3. Your grasp of copywrite and intellectual property laws is not that wonderful. It sounds like you just let a bunch kids put fear into you. In most cases people who claim copywrites have never even copywrited the material. In fact, most people don't even know the first thing about the paperwork involved

Actually, in the United Kingdom there is no paper work involved in intellectual copyright (not copywrite, which is text), as shown below in this passage taken from Her Majesty's Patent Office website:

Before you go any further you need to know that there is no official register for copyright. It is an unregistered right (unlike patents, registered designs or trade marks). So, there is no official action to take, (no application to make, forms to fill in or fees to pay). Copyright comes into effect immediately, as soon as something that can be protected is created and "fixed" in some way, eg on paper, on film, via sound recording, as an electronic record on the internet, etc.

(http://www.patent.gov.uk/copy/definition.htm)

Now, due to several international conventions, most noticably the Berne Convention of 1886/1979 (of which the United States, and the United Kingdom are members) is protected in all member countries (again, information taken from Her Majesty's Patent Officer on this page http://www.patent.gov.uk/copy/indetail/copyclaim.htm).

Moving on to the ownership of Star Trek et al, it would feesable for Viacom to begin proceedings against those using the Star Trek name on websites (including this website, and Steve's website, and Tango Fleet, and indeed on various of my own website). As you say, there would be little money in the proceedings, but courts can of course grant other remedies such as injunction or abatement (although, one could debate whether or not that is applicable in such circumstances).

Now, as for Steve copyrighting material under the Star Trek name, we come to an interesting question. In the end, the courts, and only the courts, can make a decision regarding the originality of the work. Not you, this website, Viacom, Steve, myself, nor the Queen (well, possibly her, depending on how far we allow her to allow her sovereign rights to extend). Steve's work could be considered an adaption of the original Star Trek (as much of his work is, for example the Federation Amabassadors pips are based on his the series, but are actually is own work in the entirity, from the pips to the names, as with some of the alian rank insignia). Under British law, it is more than likely they would be considered original.

How this would all fit in to the international nature of this website (I see, for example, that the head administrator is from the Czech Republic, while the assistants appear to be more internationally based), I am unsure, and would be a matter for lawyers with more experience in this field of law.

The law lecture's over now, and returning to the point, it is common courtesy to credit Steve, whether it is legal copyright or not. He spent a lot of time working on that, and it is only what one could call "fair". By not copyright Steve, you create a bad image for yourself and this organisation.

Ian Shrallow wrote:sigh..

1. He wanted kudos for being a midshipman even though that is pretty meaningless since he's not going to a military academy.

Sir,
I did not want "kudos" for being a midshipman. I was simply informing you fine people tht I have a life.
Secondly, I find your attitude towards ROTC offensive. I worked my butt off to ge into Annapolis. I was cut IN THE FINAL CUT Becuase I had worked my butt off, I was offered n ROTC scholarship, which I EARNED ON MY OWN MERIT. I took it. To me, all that matters is that on my graduation day, I will be commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in the United States Marine Corps. I will walk across that stage and get my degree, IN A UNIFORM. I'll have a chance to serve my country, which I'll do PROUDLY

Ian Shrallow wrote:sigh..

3. Your grasp of copywrite and intellectual property laws is not that wonderful. It sounds like you just let a bunch kids put fear into you. In most cases people who claim copywrites have never even copywrited the material. In fact, most people don't even know the first thing about the paperwork involved. And this is just for a US copywrite. International coywrites are sticky and not recognised by many countries and again it requires much paperwork. Likewise, there is a question using the Star Trek name and names associated with it. In fact, I think could wite a book on this. Anyway, the claims made here are unenforcable and quasi-legal at best. Also, since no loss of money is invovled for Paramount or whoever owns the right to the series and movies, there is little claim. As for as people using the name and the series names for their hobbies, they are probably in more danger than anyone posting information and I do not beleive that a copywrite would be granted without the approval of the owners of the rights -- which I doubt ever took place.

You missed the point of what I was trying to say ...

1) Complaints to Network Solutions are investigated.

2) When they receive the complaint, they disable the URL -- without a valid URL, your site is no longer accessible.

3) Depending on when they get to it (i.e., how important they view the complaint), they may not get to you for a while. Until they get to you, your web site is down because the URL will not work.

4) When they finally get to you, even if you win, your web site will still have been down for an extended period of time.

Ask yourself if all of that is worth it or would it be simplier to comply with the man's request.

to ssaint04 ... Good man. I started my career as a second lieutenant in the United States Marine Corps over twenty years ago. I was proud to have served my country and to receive an honorable discharge last year after obtaining the rank of lieutenant colonel.

Dear ALL

1. First of all I would like to say that the "copyright" notice should be placed on our website, but this is my personal opinion, I am not the owner of the site. Wherever I put some insignia into it (ex. scans from the historical books) I put the source name to it.

2. The discussion about who is who in military ranks seems stupid for me. It has nothing to do with the initial subject.

3. The whole project was dedicated to the "rankinsignia" schemes around the world. The "Fiction" part of it arised in the meantime and (at least in my opinion) is the small addition to it.

Hi Zdzislaw herrwiggly here, HEAR,HEAR! Let us keep this wonderful site for what it was (as you rightly say) intended, to enlarge our mutual knowledge of our hobby. The passing on of insignia information should be the PRIME motive for our communication between each other not to get involved in some petty squabble. Gentlemen, lets get back to the business in hand. The further study of the ranks of the world, we still have a lot to accomplish. :( :( :( Cheers

Herrwiggly wrote:Hi Zdzislaw herrwiggly here, HEAR,HEAR! Let us keep this wonderful site for what it was (as you rightly say) intended, to enlarge our mutual knowledge of our hobby. The passing on of insignia information should be the PRIME motive for our communication between each other not to get involved in some petty squabble. Gentlemen, lets get back to the business in hand. The further study of the ranks of the world, we still have a lot to accomplish. :( :( :( Cheers

Sirs,
While it may be slightly off topic, should you not get the insinia you have on your site CORRECT? I'd be more than happy to aid you in correcting any mitakes made with the Star Trek insignia.
I do realize that this site was originally for Rank Insignia from the world, and I'll admit, I've used this site for homework and such where I needed to look up what an insgnia looked like. But the thought of someone using incorrect information, to be blunt, bugs the hell out of me. The thought of using stolen images also annoys me.
Should Mister Marriott see fit to report you to Network Solutions, I will support him. If he does not, I will also support him. All we want is credit given where credit is due.

Well, I believe this debate is rather getting out of hand. Let me just summarize a few things: first of all, we're not talking about something that exists in any given coutry, but in every country - I'm talking about information existing on the internet. In this field, theory and practice - not only of intelectual property law, but pretty much of all law - is yet only fledgling. Now, I don't think Network Solutions or any other company would take any hard measures as threatened with by some gentlemen here, for they can be facing some rather nasty law suits in a rather blurred territory.

As to the exclusive right of Mr. Marriott to be recognized as creator and/or sole owner of certain drawings ... well, if you look around the net a bit, you'll be able to find myriads of ST insignia drawings...

One more thing: I did check and found nowhere on the site ANY credits. This site is simply a colelction of images and photos and information, but nobody is credited with creating any of this. Not even in the case where one of the editors did the drawings. So, I believe everybody should regard the site mereley as a colelction of information, destined for public use. So, how about doing what our estimed collegue, Herrwigly said, and prefer working to sqabbling? And ssaint04: I'm fully confident, that the administrator would be very happy to receive any help he gets, so allow me to suggest you to send him a private message, offering your help.

As to pulling rank ... well, I find it in bad taste. Some of us have military backgrounds, other don't, or not yet. Anyway, on this site, we are all equal (well, except the administrators, who are more equal :lol: ) so how about putting a stop to this nonsense?

There are only two real issues here.

1. Someone wants credit for their creativity.

2. The insignia in question are NOT copywritable.

I have notthing to do with the administration of the site, so I have no involvement on how #1 should be dealt with. I really don't care, because, like many people here, I offer my help and information without expecting any credit.

As for #2, you cannot copywrite something that in and of itself is a copywrite violation.

I think that the true issue is to see if we can get this sucker to roll over to a third page in the forum by reitterating the same things over and over and over...

Horse's dead, let it be.

All someone wants is credit, and damnit, give it to them. On every webpage I run I have credit, usually on one just one main page (IE: the credits page) or on the page. If I use something from lets say, http://ditl.org, I credit them on my credits page and on the page I use the info.

It bugs the hell out of me when people do not give credit!! I do a lot of graphic work, usually just for friends, and they always love to give credit. I am also a member of a few forums, that if you don't give credit your thing is removed, and you are banned.

It isn't that hard to stick a line at the bottom of a page that gives credit.

There is a portion on this site for annotation on each page, correct? How long does it take to put a simple "These images were created by Steven Marriott" on the half dozzen that are in question.